Rudeness

This article was published in the New York Post newspaper at the end of May and it irritated me when I read it and now after reading about those fans who ridiculed Jorge Junior it made me think about this article again.
I used to have more respect for Orlando Cabrera than I do now.
I do not consider myself a Red Sox fan, as most Yankees fans do not, but through the years that I’ve watched this rivalry between the Yanks and the ‘Sox there have been many Boston players that I’ve had an enormous amount of respect and admiration for.
Nomar Garciaparra was one of those people.
Now I won’t go into some long diatribe about how and why he ended up being traded to the Cubs in a three way deal that ended up sending Orlando Cabrera to Boston to become their new shortstop back in the mid summer of 2004 and I won’t say who was wrong or who was right.
Because quite frankly it’s a complicated issue with blame that can go around to everybody involved if one wants to look for somebody to blame.
There is a book out in bookstores right now entitled "Feeding the Monster: How Money, Smarts, and Nerve Took a Team to the Top" by Seth Mnookin that I recommend reading if you feel the need to examine that situation in more detail.
But I digress, the only reason I bring all that up is that — at the time — it seemed as if the Red Sox had started down a path of diminishing returns in the shortstop department.
GqcontWhat I mean by that is that I thought Nomar was superior to Cabrera.
Then I thought that Cabrera was superior to Renteria (at least the AL East version of Renteria).
Then I thought that Renteria was better than Lugo is now.
Sort of like they took one step down the ladder with each yearly shortstop replacement that they’ve been doing since mid 2004.
Now that the chips have fallen and the dust has settled, I’ve often looked back and thought that Cabrera was much better than I gave him credit for and as Nomar has sort of leveled off over the past 2 and a half years Boston might have actually came out of that whole situation for the better at that infield position had they been able to keep Cabrera and never even bothered with Renteria back in 2005.

Cabrera went on to Anaheim and has been fantastic there for them.
Now I know that once Cabrera was not retained that Renteria was probably the best on the market and I can’t fault them for giving that a try.
Then when he left town Lugo may have been the best on the market at that time and so there again, they did what they could to get the best available guy for the money in that slot.
But I have always thought that letting Cabrera go was a mistake.
Maybe a mistake that wasn’t seen as one at the time, but I would imagine if the Angels wanted to trade Orlando to Boston for Lugo that the Red Sox would take that deal.
Anyway, the point of all of this rambling is that I have a lot of respect for Cabrera’s talents on the field and for the most part have had a lot of respect for him off of the field as well.
But this article just made me lose a little of the respect that I had for him.
When I started writing this blog I was all ready to point out all of the times that I’ve watched Red Sox fans chant nasty things about Jeter or A-Rod or all the signs and T-Shirt’s that I’ve seen them hold up and wear saying all kinds of foul and derogatory things.
I started to refernce the time in Fenway when a few particularly salty Red Sox fans made fun of Jorge Posada’s young son with Craniosynostosis.
I started to talk about the time when my friend paid scalpers 200 or 300 a ticket to take herself and her 11 year old son to a game in Fenway and had fans call her son all kinds of names and make fun of him so badly that he ended up in tears.
But really, what does that prove?
It proves that there are rude fans at Fenway on some nights.
Is that really a revelation?
No.
At least not to me.
But you know what?
There are rude fans at Yankee stadium too.
I know it’s a lot easier for us to say that Boston fans are rude and obnoxious and the fans at 161st and River Avenue are polite little angels who never say an unkind word.
But you know that’s not true.
The fact of the matter is that there are rude fans everywhere because there are rude people everywhere.
Don’t be so quick to paint us all with the same brush Orlando.
You should know better.
You played in Boston when the Yankees came to Fenway.
You’re trying to sell me on the fact that the Red Sox fans were not "mean to the other team"?
Give me a break.
The Red Sox fans are always hard on the Yankees players and I’ve never seen them fail to distinguish themselves in that regard.
What about this last trip to Fenway that the Yankees made as visiting players?
Blonde_1
Are you really wanting me to believe that the Red Sox fans wearing those masks (of a blonde white woman) and chanting all the things that they chanted at Alex Rodriguez was not "mean" spirited at all?
If Alex did have an extra-marital affair then that’s sad and wrong.
But we don’t know if he did it or not and to me making fun of his marital situation is below the belt.
If you want to make fun of him for slapping the ball from Arroyo of calling "Mine!" or "Ha!" or whatever the case me be — I think that’s fair game.
It happened on the ball field.
But what happens in his personal life shouldn’t be ridiculed by the fans on national television with his wife and daughter watching on.
If that’s not "mean", then I don’t know what is.
If you are a Red Sox fan and are reading this right now — there is a distinct possibility that you have a half dozen examples of Yankees fans being "mean" to Red Sox players or their fans at the ready.
And you know what?
Don’t bother.
I know you’re right and I believe you.
Fand
There’s a segment of both fan bases (Red Sox and Yankee) that are loud, rude, belligerent, mean, and ill tempered.
And for the most part they embarrass the other fans who don’t do that sort of thing and for the most part the embarrass their favorite players.
Think Jeter and Oritiz like that sort of behavior from people that are supposed to be their biggest fans?
Think again.
Anyway, my point is that Cabrera should be smarter than that and I expected better.
And at this point in my life, I’m actually finding myself disliking the Angels FAR MORE than I dislike the Red Sox…
Just my thoughts….
What do you guys and gals think ?

——————————————————————-

HALOS’ CABRERA: YANKS FANS ‘BAD LOSERS’
By BRIAN LEWIS

                        
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May 28, 2007 — Angels shortstop Orlando Cabrera ripped Yankees fans in
–yesterday’s editions of the Los Angeles Times, calling them
–mean-spirited poor losers who don’t appreciate good baseball. Their
–response – censoring out the profanity of course – was "Who is Orlando
–Cabrera?"







–Even before the Bombers had suffered through the indignity of
–yesterday’s 4-3 loss that capped an Anaheim sweep, their fans suffered
–through being insulted by Cabrera, who told the newspaper "They don’t
–appreciate good baseball: They just appreciate the Yankees beating up
–on everybody."


They haven’t seen that too often lately,
–watching the Yankees lose 11 of their last 16 games with the Angels at
–Yankee Stadium.


"In Boston, they admire baseball. In Anaheim,
–those fans are some of the best in baseball. They know you care there.
–They know you can’t do it every day. I appreciate that," said Cabrera,
–who saw Yankees fans at their most vociferous when he played for Boston
–in 2004. "These people here, they’re mean. And they’re really mean to
–the other team.


"When we came here last year, they were in
–first place, so it was OK. Now they’re just looking for an excuse. When
–people say [stuff], they only motivate me. They’re bad losers."


–Cabrera actually seemed friendly enough with the fans, chatting while
–leaning against the wall during a seventh-inning pitching change. When
–asked by The Post whether he was surprised the crowd of 53,508 hadn’t
–been tougher on him, he turned his back and walked away, replying over
–his shoulder "That’s your answer right there."


When approached
–again, he was in a snit, reproaching The Post with "Don’t try and play

a . . . game with a chess player, Papi."


None of the fans The
–Post interviewed had any idea of Cabrera’s indictments. When asked his
–opinion, West Haven, Conn., native Chris DelVecchi just sniffed and
–said "I don’t give a [bleep] about Orlando Cabrera."


Jen Prisco of Orange, Conn., said: "He’s not a Yankee, so I don’t care what he thinks."


Prisco’s sister, Lisa, responded to the question with a query of her own.


"When’s the last time the Angels drew four million?" she asked.


–For the record, the answer is never. Their club record is 3,406,790 –
–which the Yankees have bettered the last five years. This season, the
–Yankees are on pace to lead the majors in attendance for a fifth
–consecutive year.

——————————————————————-

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15 comments

  1. Jason

    I remember reading this as well when it was linked on Pete Abraham’s blog, and he came across as a sniveling runt in the article. What a clown. Ah, Yankees fans are so mean, compared to people at The Dump in Boston who revere baseball so much that one of them clearly swiped at Sheffield and clipped his cap to obstruct him while making a play along the wall in 2005, and another fan ridiculed the appearance of Posada’s son who has a rare and difficult medical condition.

  2. Michael

    I mean, I honestly don’t hold up all of the Yankees fan base as a text book example of proper fan behaviour.
    I really don’t.

    I just get tired of taking the brunt of the “bad fan” rap when I have never cursed at a player or thrown things at a player or made fun of his wife of children.

    I think that anytime you generalize a fan base like this that you are doing them a diservice.

    About the only exception that I can think of is the Phillies fans as so far I’ve yet to met many that haven’t been taken in by that group mentality of boo’ing their own players and throwing things and making fun of players when they get injured on the field of play.

    (Now watch, I’ll get a mob of Phillies fans commenting here saying that I’m not being fair to them).

    What goes around — comes around, I suppose…

  3. Rick

    Michael:
    Two things here…

    First of all, Orlando Cabrera is a first rate PUNK. Just watch him play, and watch him try to show up the other team. NO CLASS.

    Secondly, I don’t think that Yankee fans, by and large, are bad at all. I used to sit out in the bleachers when I was a kid, and I NEVER saw any undo rudeness or improper behavior. I know it’s just my anecdotal opinion, but consider this about the Boston Fenway crowd as well.

    A week after Thurman Munson was killed in that terrible accident, the Yankees visited Fenway for a 3 game series. The Boston faithful, the class acts that they are (still to this day), were chanting, “Munson *****! Munson *****!” Now THAT’S real classy.

    Don’t take MY word for it, you can ask ANY of the guys who were on that 1979 team about it. Jim Spencer, Graig Nettles, Ron Guidry, Lou… whomever… they ALL heard it.

    The fact is, in the Bronx, you might have a very small minority of idiots that act up when the suds go to their heads…a very SMALL minority in the biggest city in the world.

    But in Boston, as seen in that Sunday night game when the chowder-heads were wearing blond masks, it’s most certainly a majority. They may deny it, but they ALL know it.

    Rick

    http://munsonshouldbeinthehall.mlblogs.com/

  4. Michael

    When I say that there are Yankees fans that behave badly at times I’m not refering to myself or my friends that I go to games with.
    I’m just saying that there are bad fans everywhere and it crosses bounderies.

    I have seen more Red Sox fan bad behaviour in person than I’ve seen bad Yankee fan activity — but I do know what goes on at every game and I don’t didnt want this to end up being a Red Sox fan bashing blog.

    I just was annoyed by Cabrera and his comments.

  5. Michael

    But since that seems to be the unintentional topic, anybody else have a perspective that they’d like to share about this?

  6. phurrballe@aol.com

    Every fan base has those fans who do the unthinkable. They do seemingly cross boundaries. Pick on a player that does not tow the line on the field or pimps after home runs. Mock the player who is continually the clubhouse cancer. But to pick on a player’s off-field life, his family or anything else that has nothing to do with baseball, is pretty cowardly.

    I read an interview in today’s paper with Posada’s family and how one day a fan picked on their son with his health issues and I was heartbroken. I can only chalk that kind of behavior to the few who grew up not learning any manners, are themselves quite insecure and most importantly, are cowards. But all teams have a small population of thugs.

    Try playing in Chicago with the Bleacher Bums. Mets fans sitting near the visiting bullpen during the NLCS last year were quite embarrassing too. Cabrera should take a long look in his park next homestand.

    Lee Ellen

  7. Michael

    I agree Lee.
    And I’m glad to see you are still peeking in after the Mets series.

    And true to my word I have to offer my congrats on the Mets beat down of the Twins today.

    Nice to see Delgado’s bat woke up.

    I’m happy that it happened and that it happened after Sunday night’s game.

    Good luck to you !

  8. Michael

    I actually have that article you were talking about in the blog I wrote just before this one earlier this morning.

  9. phurrballe@aol.com

    “And I’m glad to see you are still peeking in after the Mets series.”

    Yeah, guess I like the Yankees more than I thought 🙂

    Lee Ellen

  10. miwil36@ny-yankees.net

    I didn’t really pay attention to him until he played for the Sox. I recall him throwing an elbow at someone in a game-escapes me who it is. Sorta have no respect for the guy.

    I have never seen some of the disgusting things fans have done at Fenway at Yankee Stadium. People are people and shouldn’t be grouped as one but there seems to be more of it in Fenway (with less seats available) than any park I have ever seen.

    The Sox (who currently have the best record in baseball) seem to have millions of fans all around the country. Watching and listing to some of their away games you would swear they were at Fenway. With so many fans why is it that they have two players; David-I don’t want to participate in the HR derby cause it makes me tired Ortiz, and Manny-sorry the fans are not good enough for me Ramirez are the only players toping the votes for the ALL Star game.

    I had a Sox fan yesterday actually try to convince me that Cabrera is a better SS than Jeter because he has less errors. Cabrera pales in comparison to him both on and off the field.

  11. miwil36@ny-yankees.net

    I failed to mention I’ve been to 250+ games at Fenway, so I have had plenty of opportunity to witness it first hand.

  12. Jason

    Lots of good accurate comments here from host Mike, Lee Ellen, Mike W. and Rick. That’s just a terrible thing to hear about Red Sox fans and my man Thurman, who died on my birthday, the worst of my birthdays by a mile.

    My own animosity toward Cabrera began with his flashing his spikes toward Jeter and Cairo every time he slid into second during the 2004 ALCS. When I mentioned this in response to Red Sox fans whining about A-Rod’s hard slide (with the unnecessary elbow) on Pedroia, as well as Pedroia’s own hard on Jeter beforehand, there was stone silence. So typical, I must say.

    But those who said the following are right: every fan base has its own poorly behaved, crass segment. That Cabrera has chosen, willfully or ignorantly, to overlook those for whom he played (especially in Boston) is a testament to Cabrera’s everlasting status as dunce.

    http://heartlandpinstripes.mlblogs.com/

  13. djayteecees@gmail.com

    If you wish to succeed , you should use persistence as your good friend , experience as your reference , prudence as your brother and hope as your sentry. Do you think so?
    http://www.nicetick.com
    – Air Jordan

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